Aright since you like rumors... This is the Brian Jones story I heard with a little content:
NYC @1980ish: I was friends/partners with the late Keith Angelino. His stage name was Keith Angel when in "the front" and "twisted sister" bands. Keith was dating Deena Miller@'82ish(?), Jimmy Miller's (rolling stone's producer) daughter with Gayle. The story I heard was Jones got some 'psycho-contractor" pissed off and he "clocked" or pushed Jones where he ended up in the pool over an argument about money. Jones was so high, he drowned.
Yeah that's the standard story more or less. Problem is that he wasn't high, wasn't drunk, was an excellent swimmer. The story stinks but the coroner (who saw fit to disappear to Europe for several weeks straight after) backed up the fact that Jones (as per the post included in my substack post) was not high nor drunk.
Neither Jagger nor Richards attended the funeral. Marianne Faithful took an overdose in Sydney in the week or so after Jones' death allegedly due to her being upset about Jones' death. Jagger couldn't care less and left her to recover by herself in hospital while he did interviews for the Ned Kelly role he had been hired for. Local rumours in Bromley? (I can't remember exactly but Richard's grandfather was Mayor of the place) were that Richards himself (who had taken up with Jones' ex Anita) did the deed.
Yeah, there was lots of drug abuse in the music industry until sony started corporatizing their "assets" as a risk migration strategy. With Sony, UMG in firm control, 14yo groupies were nearly eliminated and deadly rampant substance abuse war "better managed".
The industry was rife young, very talented musicians, some with severe mental illness, been intoxicated by predatory managers and sycophants. The feeling of youthful immortality was sometimes met with the reality of depression and death.
Could I believe there was a "fixer" called in to manage the Jones case ? I'd personally be hard pressed and surprised if there wasn't, there was a lot of money at stake.
My understanding was "the stones" kicked out jones for showing up in unacceptable condition once too many times. He was kicked to the curb and considered 'persona non grata'. The question becomes "how far is too far". For member to kick out another member there is a lot of emotion (frustration) involved. High running emotions are amplified by substance abuse and 'someone' inciting the fact.
I can't believe Allen Klein, part owner of the band, didn't have some hand in this mess. He was kicked out and replaced by Loewenstein @1970. Klein had tried to sue the other members of the rolling stones for ownership rights of their songs. I heard "don't screw with Klein's money". I also heard Klein stole money from the beatles, sam cooke and many other. I'm not sure how true those statements are, I never met the guy. Although, rumors about money are usually vicious and uncomplimentary.
It takes a lot of pent up anger for members to kick someone out of a band. If the stories about Jones are true, he was costing them $$$ for missed performances, reputation and putting their record contract at risk. I'd kick him out as well. There is nothing worse than a substance abusing, immature or unreliable business partner. I've done similar and didn't talk to those ppl again for over 20 years. Some, I still won't talk to. If I was to look for a "culprit" in this Jones case, I'd look for someone who was impassioned about losing love or money.
The funny thing about those accusations about Jones is that he was playing suberp slide guitar on Rock'n'roll circus. According to Jagger & Richards he was unable to play guitar by this stage. Well I'd challenge both of them, completely sober, to play better than he did in 68. Also Jumping Jack Flash he was on form. I think the Stones songs in his era are mostly pretty good ones, after he died mostly crap.
Jagger & Richards were tight. They made a lot of accusations about Jones but I think that they're mostly bullshit. Jones got a hard time from both of them and did end up in a psyche hospital for a month or two but he was bullied mercilessly by Jagger & Richards which no doubt contributed. He was still their best musician by far and they both knew it.
I have to say, almost all professional musicians are tight. They can perform on these huge stages, not hear the other instrument half the time, and it sound like great music. I could never do that, despite trying my best. That's the difference between them and everyone else. I've seen bands' guitarists wonked out on so much heroine they could barely breath. But on stage, they were fantastic and the audience could never tell. I don't know how they did it. The weird thing is... 20 minutes later, the same person couldn't play in key, in time or even the same song if their life depended on it. Oh yeah, then there's backstage puking from the dope they just shot and using poppers (amyl nitrate) and cocaine to stay standing. I was very much a bystander to this stuff and probably why I'm so anti-drug, anti-cannabis, and contributes to my anti-alcohol stance.
In Jones case, unless you were there with them, you could never know the stuff that went on. I wouldn't be so critical, they were young and kept stoned (sedated) so their mangers could steal their money.
For sure Loog Oldham and Klein were bastards and it's not out of the question that the hit on Jones was Klein's, he after all did have form with Sam Cooke and was in talks with Lennon's manager the week after his death (having been the Beatles manager for a brief time). To me Klein is most definitely a murdering swine, one of the worst band managers there was (and he definitely was not the only murdering one).
But in 69 Richards was just as likely to be wasted, Jagger was high on his association with Britain's mafia men and if you listen closely to Stones on Parkison with Honky Tonk Woman well you can hear the threats. They were, and are, shits.
Also there had been a kerfuffle the day before Jones' death when Jagger & Richards had turned up at Jones to get him, unsuccessfully, to pass over the IP to them.
Not too late to charge them both with being, at the least, accessories to Jones murder which was most likely covered up by the Stones' fixer, Tom Keylock, whose brother was in the Scotland Yard.
Dec 10, 2023·edited Dec 10, 2023Liked by Richard Seager
I never met Jagger or Richards. I met Jimmy Miller. I also knew a bunch of others in that business, musicians managers and record execs. I was introduced to the Warhol crew by an acquaintance that had an loft/studio under one of Warhol's crew's loft/studio on green street up the block from canal street. . We were asked to parties upstairs, I was invited to others often. I rarely attended.
The only guys I didn't like was Allen Ginsberg and his 'friends", even though was safe, I was older than 15 at the time. Oh yeah... and Dana Beal, the self proclaimed "head of the hippies". IMO there were far too many girls around I thought were underage, well exceeding my comfort level at 9 bleecker street.
After Felix Pappalardi was killed in '83, I completely shut the door on any remnants I still was in contact with at the time. I used to mouth words/no sound talking to felix, making him think he was more deaf than he was. Funny how its the silly things we remember best. Karma strikes, now I'm just as deaf as he was.
In the US there were some gangsters or at least wanabes in the music bus. As I understand it, the UK had a larger problem with the Kays and other firm member. I didn't associate with that group, so I really don't know much about them. Periodically in the late 70's, ASCAP (more wanabes) tried to shake me down for $500. I really don't know why, I didn't have club, bar or band playing covers. I'm too polite these days to repeat my response. My buddy Keith's dad ran the Stage Hand Workers Union #1 in NYC. A call quickly resolved ASCAP issues.
I wish I could add more to the story, but I don't have much. As I said, I was merely a spectator on the sidelines.
Aright since you like rumors... This is the Brian Jones story I heard with a little content:
NYC @1980ish: I was friends/partners with the late Keith Angelino. His stage name was Keith Angel when in "the front" and "twisted sister" bands. Keith was dating Deena Miller@'82ish(?), Jimmy Miller's (rolling stone's producer) daughter with Gayle. The story I heard was Jones got some 'psycho-contractor" pissed off and he "clocked" or pushed Jones where he ended up in the pool over an argument about money. Jones was so high, he drowned.
Yeah that's the standard story more or less. Problem is that he wasn't high, wasn't drunk, was an excellent swimmer. The story stinks but the coroner (who saw fit to disappear to Europe for several weeks straight after) backed up the fact that Jones (as per the post included in my substack post) was not high nor drunk.
Neither Jagger nor Richards attended the funeral. Marianne Faithful took an overdose in Sydney in the week or so after Jones' death allegedly due to her being upset about Jones' death. Jagger couldn't care less and left her to recover by herself in hospital while he did interviews for the Ned Kelly role he had been hired for. Local rumours in Bromley? (I can't remember exactly but Richard's grandfather was Mayor of the place) were that Richards himself (who had taken up with Jones' ex Anita) did the deed.
Yeah, there was lots of drug abuse in the music industry until sony started corporatizing their "assets" as a risk migration strategy. With Sony, UMG in firm control, 14yo groupies were nearly eliminated and deadly rampant substance abuse war "better managed".
The industry was rife young, very talented musicians, some with severe mental illness, been intoxicated by predatory managers and sycophants. The feeling of youthful immortality was sometimes met with the reality of depression and death.
Could I believe there was a "fixer" called in to manage the Jones case ? I'd personally be hard pressed and surprised if there wasn't, there was a lot of money at stake.
My understanding was "the stones" kicked out jones for showing up in unacceptable condition once too many times. He was kicked to the curb and considered 'persona non grata'. The question becomes "how far is too far". For member to kick out another member there is a lot of emotion (frustration) involved. High running emotions are amplified by substance abuse and 'someone' inciting the fact.
I can't believe Allen Klein, part owner of the band, didn't have some hand in this mess. He was kicked out and replaced by Loewenstein @1970. Klein had tried to sue the other members of the rolling stones for ownership rights of their songs. I heard "don't screw with Klein's money". I also heard Klein stole money from the beatles, sam cooke and many other. I'm not sure how true those statements are, I never met the guy. Although, rumors about money are usually vicious and uncomplimentary.
It takes a lot of pent up anger for members to kick someone out of a band. If the stories about Jones are true, he was costing them $$$ for missed performances, reputation and putting their record contract at risk. I'd kick him out as well. There is nothing worse than a substance abusing, immature or unreliable business partner. I've done similar and didn't talk to those ppl again for over 20 years. Some, I still won't talk to. If I was to look for a "culprit" in this Jones case, I'd look for someone who was impassioned about losing love or money.
The funny thing about those accusations about Jones is that he was playing suberp slide guitar on Rock'n'roll circus. According to Jagger & Richards he was unable to play guitar by this stage. Well I'd challenge both of them, completely sober, to play better than he did in 68. Also Jumping Jack Flash he was on form. I think the Stones songs in his era are mostly pretty good ones, after he died mostly crap.
Jagger & Richards were tight. They made a lot of accusations about Jones but I think that they're mostly bullshit. Jones got a hard time from both of them and did end up in a psyche hospital for a month or two but he was bullied mercilessly by Jagger & Richards which no doubt contributed. He was still their best musician by far and they both knew it.
I have to say, almost all professional musicians are tight. They can perform on these huge stages, not hear the other instrument half the time, and it sound like great music. I could never do that, despite trying my best. That's the difference between them and everyone else. I've seen bands' guitarists wonked out on so much heroine they could barely breath. But on stage, they were fantastic and the audience could never tell. I don't know how they did it. The weird thing is... 20 minutes later, the same person couldn't play in key, in time or even the same song if their life depended on it. Oh yeah, then there's backstage puking from the dope they just shot and using poppers (amyl nitrate) and cocaine to stay standing. I was very much a bystander to this stuff and probably why I'm so anti-drug, anti-cannabis, and contributes to my anti-alcohol stance.
In Jones case, unless you were there with them, you could never know the stuff that went on. I wouldn't be so critical, they were young and kept stoned (sedated) so their mangers could steal their money.
For sure Loog Oldham and Klein were bastards and it's not out of the question that the hit on Jones was Klein's, he after all did have form with Sam Cooke and was in talks with Lennon's manager the week after his death (having been the Beatles manager for a brief time). To me Klein is most definitely a murdering swine, one of the worst band managers there was (and he definitely was not the only murdering one).
But in 69 Richards was just as likely to be wasted, Jagger was high on his association with Britain's mafia men and if you listen closely to Stones on Parkison with Honky Tonk Woman well you can hear the threats. They were, and are, shits.
Also there had been a kerfuffle the day before Jones' death when Jagger & Richards had turned up at Jones to get him, unsuccessfully, to pass over the IP to them.
Not too late to charge them both with being, at the least, accessories to Jones murder which was most likely covered up by the Stones' fixer, Tom Keylock, whose brother was in the Scotland Yard.
I never met Jagger or Richards. I met Jimmy Miller. I also knew a bunch of others in that business, musicians managers and record execs. I was introduced to the Warhol crew by an acquaintance that had an loft/studio under one of Warhol's crew's loft/studio on green street up the block from canal street. . We were asked to parties upstairs, I was invited to others often. I rarely attended.
The only guys I didn't like was Allen Ginsberg and his 'friends", even though was safe, I was older than 15 at the time. Oh yeah... and Dana Beal, the self proclaimed "head of the hippies". IMO there were far too many girls around I thought were underage, well exceeding my comfort level at 9 bleecker street.
After Felix Pappalardi was killed in '83, I completely shut the door on any remnants I still was in contact with at the time. I used to mouth words/no sound talking to felix, making him think he was more deaf than he was. Funny how its the silly things we remember best. Karma strikes, now I'm just as deaf as he was.
In the US there were some gangsters or at least wanabes in the music bus. As I understand it, the UK had a larger problem with the Kays and other firm member. I didn't associate with that group, so I really don't know much about them. Periodically in the late 70's, ASCAP (more wanabes) tried to shake me down for $500. I really don't know why, I didn't have club, bar or band playing covers. I'm too polite these days to repeat my response. My buddy Keith's dad ran the Stage Hand Workers Union #1 in NYC. A call quickly resolved ASCAP issues.
I wish I could add more to the story, but I don't have much. As I said, I was merely a spectator on the sidelines.
Also rumours that he was talking a band with Steve Marriott & John Lennon. That would have been a pretty damned good band. Rolling Stones v2?
Frank Thorogood was the contracter btw, defamed in my view. Tom Keylock was more likely involved in Jones murder.
More stuff I didn't know. Thanks.
Wow! Just wow! I knew there had to be a reason I never was a Rolling Stones fan.